Fitigues to R&R Surplus

Now they are in Phoenix hoping to keep the magic going with their new lines R & R Surplus and PE Vintage.

The meetings

The meetings with the Rosenstein’s were wonderful from a creative stand point. They knew what they wanted and were working with capable people to make it happen. They chose my work as standing above and beyond every other photographer that they spoke to. We certainly developed a good collaborative relationship because I was saying the things they wanted to hear, not to deceive them but because I truly believe in the soul of the photography is vital to fashion. I believed it was my passion about what we could do along with the portfolio that made the difference. There were two meetings that I was apart of both around 3 hours long where we discussed among other things what I thought we should do visually, how to really break the mold of what is being done in fashion right now, and how to tell their story along the way.

Contracts Money and Business

Toward the end of the second meeting I was trying to nail down the scope of work, how many images what the expectations were for uniquness in the catalog work, and who would be styling the shoots. It was decided that nearly 40 unique still life photographs (because they were done using models, just too much hassle) was the bare minimum to get started, the creative director I met in the first meeting had already left the project so Andi would be styling. I quoted them my pricing which is openly available here: pricing and estimated the amount of stated work as 3-5 days of shooting.

Negotiations

This is where everything seemed to break down. They had no clue what photography cost in time or in money. I felt blindsided when they had not heard the term “usage” before, considered 40 unique and styled photographs to be less than a day of photographing, and considered a day rate to cover 24 hours of photographing. Didn’t they just come up through the ranks of the fashion world? Didn’t they just tell me they had photographers lining up to get on a plane to fly out from LA, Chicago and NY to shoot this project? And their total expected budget for non exclusive rights to all of MY work was $4000?

Popular Negotiation Strategy

Oh, but I wasn’t aware of the value of working with them. They would continue to work with me as they built their new project into another empire. This is just the beginning. Did I know they have a database of 1.2 million customers addresses and emails to get this project started? Did I know they were world famous and would drop my name at every opportunity?

Word of advice: If you say this to me in a negotiation I will gladly agree and then write it into the contract.

Red Flag List:

• #1 Didn’t know the cost of photography
• #2 Didn’t want to sign a contract
• #3 Refused to pay deposit
• #4 Never wrote anything down, all ‘deals’ made on the phone
• #5 Wanted me to get started immediately
• #6 Claimed to lose my estimate sent by email

Why would I write this blog post?

That is the point of social media, to be a real resource for the community. I understand that deals go bad, people don’t mesh over personalities or money or whatever. That has never before affected my relationship with a person or business. I strongly believe you should choose who you work with and I’ve said no to many clients in the past. This time however I feel Steve and Andi pushed too hard when they decided that because we couldn’t work together they would try and make sure I didn’t work with anyone again.

Whether you choose to work with Steve and Andi is of course up to you. I think they have an amazing vision for the future of downtown phoenix. I personally just can’t do business with no contract, no deposit, and payment in promises…

I am very open with my business so here are the dialogues I have in writing:

The estimate

Hey Steve,

It was great talking to you all today. I really love where you all are at and what you hope to accomplish downtown. I also hope that I can be a advocate for your store when you open and grow with your company in the coming years.

Just as foundation here are my standard national day rates as posted online
http://tysoncrosbie.com/pricing:

$285/hr
$2280/day
National contracts are minimum 1 day.

Delivered images are each:
$100 for product (only used in a catalog)
$300 for key images (used as collateral, marketing, basically anywhere.)

All images from a shoot will be available for review, the contract does not limit your ability to purchase as many or few images (product or key) that you feel necessary.

I promised to send over a quote that took into account attribution and opportunities to grow with your company.

I came up with this number:

$250/hr
$2000/day
National Contract minimum 1 day.

Delivered images are each:
$50 for product (only used in a catalog)
$300 for key images (used as collateral, marketing, basically anywhere.)

A total estimate for the estimated scope of work for R&R as defined by our meeting today 10/14/08

3-4 Days  $6000- $8000

40 product images  $2000

5 Key images $1500

Estimate: $9500 – $11,500

*for future reference I believe I could shoot a maximum of 6 key images a day or 15 unique product images.

Scheduling will require 50% deposit, remainder due on delivery.

**IMPORTANT**

We need to come to an agreement before the scouting shoot on Thursday at 9am, on Thursday we can sign the contract, develop and complete a shot list and I’d expect to receive the deposit at that time.

Again it was a pleasure meeting with you and I hope we can work together to make this project special.

–
Tyson Crosbie
602.254.2880
tysoncrosbie.com

No response until this morning in text

S&A: Tyson we’re a little behind schedule. Let’s meet at 10 00 ok?

(we arranged to start shooting at 9am today)

TC: I never heard back about the estimate. Are you ready to sign and pay the deposit? Please send response in email. Thanks.

S&A: Never received an estimate and we have never paid a deposit and don’t plan on paying one now.

TC: Steve now has two emails from me. Good luck in all your endeavors.

The Final Emails

Steve,

This estimate is now expired. It is unfortunate that we were unable to come to an agreement.

I feel you’ve been considerably dishonest in these negotiations therefore, future meetings will require a minimum $3000.00 non refundable payment prior to the meeting for art direction and imaging advice.

Sincerely,

Tyson Crosbie

The step too far

Aaron,

I’ve cc’d your pal Tyson on this as well. I’m really disturbed by the attached correspondence and as a friend, strongly urge you to refrain from referring him to anyone else as it is very negative reflection on you.

Steven Rosenstein
R & R Surplus
Scottsdale, AZ.
480-650-9160

Let me know what you think

I know I don’t always say the right thing, I am not perfect. However, I do consider myself fair and when I make a mistake I’ll admit it and make ammends, if I don’t know something I’ll ask, and I rarely, if ever, ask anyone to work on promises. I am a new kind of business person and I am proud to be as open and honest as I can. I feel it attracts the right kind of clients, you know the ones that just get it.